The emulator does not reproduce at all the Auto-Scaling feature. It´s known for sure how the installation will react if when it checks for the minimun resolution of 800x600 the UMPC is auto-scaled to a bigger resolution.

I should remind you that Otto never answered clearly if PS will work in these devices, instead he said something like will make more sence to use some applications than others.

By testing a group of applications and ponting here the result we can get a good idea of how well these devices are going to perform in the real world.

I think the App Compat team has something a little more pressing to deal with, aka Vista, then to go through and generate a list that would be 99% identical to a list that would exist for XP. I personally plan on running Visual Studio 2005 on it, so keep that in mind. It is perfect for the "on vacation and need to fix this crashing bug" occasion. Here is VS2005's system requirements, in case you are interested... http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/support/readme/default.aspx

ihojnicki:

I think the App Compat team has something a little more pressing to deal with, aka Vista, then to go through and generate a list that would be 99% identical to a list that would exist for XP. I personally plan on running Visual Studio 2005 on it, so keep that in mind. It is perfect for the "on vacation and need to fix this crashing bug" occasion. Here is VS2005's system requirements, in case you are interested... http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/support/readme/default.aspx  

that's a good news! I'll wait your report back on Visual Studio 2005 to see I should buy mine then!

About your 99% "hope" that's something that I doubt and I have explained my reasons in my other posts in this thread. XP is XP but the differences in hardware between your PC and these devices are huge.

Let me repeat what I said a few post ago...

The idea of paying 1000 dollars to do some browsing, show pictures and draw with Paint is not really appealing. We need to know more about practical uses for these devices. What programs have they tested, what are the limitations beside the screen resolution? How good the auto-scaling is? Can programs like Photo Shop be used in a bigger resolution using the Auto-Scaling feature?

Even with all your optimism I believe that you are going to be in a better possition to decide if you are going to buy one of these devices if you know the anwers to the above mentioned questions. ;-)

It sounds to me like you want a guarentee that Photoshop can run on this. Well... If they firmly stick to the requirement that they need a 1024x768 screen to run, then no you can't run Photoshop on a UMPC. The Autoscaling cuts off at 1024x600, so the display driver would not allow you select a higher resolution. But that would be Adobe's fault and they deserve a good lashing for hard coding that in. What other pieces of hardware have you concerned? This is just a form factor change, so screen resolution is the main thing that changes. Here is the dev notes they put out on the UMPC... http://msdn.microsoft.com/mobility/tabletpc/umpc/default.aspx

ihojnicki:

It sounds to me like you want a guarentee that Photoshop can run on this. Well... If they firmly stick to the requirement that they need a 1024x768 screen to run, then no you can't run Photoshop on a UMPC. The Autoscaling cuts off at 1024x600, so the display driver would not allow you select a higher resolution. But that would be Adobe's fault and they deserve a good lashing for hard coding that in. What other pieces of hardware have you concerned? This is just a form factor change, so screen resolution is the main thing that changes. Here is the dev notes they put out on the UMPC... http://msdn.microsoft.com/mobility/tabletpc/umpc/default.aspx

will autocaling be capable of fooling applications where the installation or the same application checks the screen resolution? How good the autoscaling is? If you check Otto's video he mentions that is certain video degradation when you use autoscaling.

ctitanic:

andrewk:

ctitanic:

To Microsoft team....

I think that will be a good idea if you create a list in some where, may be your FAQ page, where you post the title of all programs that you have installed and that works fine in UMPCs. That will help a lot to all of us. You can start by your own Microsoft software if you like!

Considering that these devices run full versions of Windows that would be one long list; there are millions if not billions of programs that run on windows.

 

-Andrew K.

 

 

Considering that the screen resolution is just 800x480 that list could be a lot less than what you think. If you add to that that UMPC use DirectX 8, you will have another lot of programs that wont be able to run on this one, add to that that they have a processor that it's not that powerful like the one in Desktop PCs and you will have another bunch of applications that you wont be able to use. ;)

Microsoft does not have that much of applications so they could start by giving us an idea of what can be used and what not and from there we can guess looking at what did not work what other applications probably wont work because are the same type or use the same resources.

Where did you read that UMPCs run DirectX8?  UMPCs have WinXP Tablet Edition 2005 installed which is WinXP and thus has DirectX 9.0c according to MS.  They should all be running at least that release or later.

I think it is very unrealistic to expect devices to run Visual Studio.  VS requires three things more than anything:  memory (more the better), large resolution monitor, and fast processor.  The UMPC doesn't have any of those things so I don't think you'd be happy with the results.  Standard applications that use WinXP windowing APIs will scroll just fine on small screens, the ones with problems are the ones that fix a screen or dialog to be a resolution larger than the UMPC screen resolution.  There is no way around that other than to compile a list of those programs as you suggest.  As for programs that won't install due to the 800x480, I would think that developers will address that when UMPCs start getting in users hands.  I think it is important to realize what you can and can't (realistically) do on such a small resolution screen.

BTW, in the MSDN note they say:

The opportunities for the UMPC in the consumer space are exciting and endless. Some examples include:

• Browsing the Web
• Managing e-mail
• Communicating in real time
• Gaming
• Edutainment
• Health management
• Keeping a journal or a diary
• Listening to music
• Creating and organizing scrapbooks
• Sharing digital images
• Searching a television program guide
• Controlling a television and other home electronics
• Watching recorded movies and television
• Watching and tracking sporting events, teams, and players
• Managing finances
• Managing food, recipe, and kitchen inventories
• Mapping or following a GPS signal
• Taking notes
• Conducting research
• Managing schedules
• Maintaining a To-Do list
• Managing time effectively

I do not see any mention about Developing applications. Does this exclude Visual Studio for being use in UMPCs?

Forgot- here's a link to an MS article stating that SP2 ships with DX 9.0c:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/games/expert/durham_gamesp2.mspx

jkendrick:

Where did you read that UMPCs run DirectX8?  UMPCs have WinXP Tablet Edition 2005 installed which is WinXP and thus has DirectX 9.0c according to MS.  They should all be running at least that release or later.

Right here in this forum.

I think it is very unrealistic to expect devices to run Visual Studio.  VS requires three things more than anything:  memory (more the better), large resolution monitor, and fast processor.  The UMPC doesn't have any of those things so I don't think you'd be happy with the results.  Standard applications that use WinXP windowing APIs will scroll just fine on small screens, the ones with problems are the ones that fix a screen or dialog to be a resolution larger than the UMPC screen resolution.  There is no way around that other than to compile a list of those programs as you suggest.  As for programs that won't install due to the 800x480, I would think that developers will address that when UMPCs start getting in users hands.  I think it is important to realize what you can and can't (realistically) do on such a small resolution screen.

That's what I want. A real list of applications that wont run. That's going to be easier than a list of those that will run ;-)

ctitanic:

BTW, in the MSDN note they say:

I do not see any mention about Developing applications. Does this exclude Visual Studio for being use in UMPCs?

Almost certainly.  These are very small PCs, how could you develop s/w on them with VS?

Can you point me to the statement in these forums that UMPCs run DX 8?  I can't find it. 

James where do you see the problem here?

System Requirements for Installing Visual Studio 2005
Processor	Minimum: 600 megahertz (MHz) Pentium processor Recommended: 1 gigahertz (GHz) Pentium processor recommended
Operating System	Visual Studio 2005 can be installed on any of the following systems: Microsoft® Windows® 2000 Professional SP4 Microsoft® Windows® 2000 Server SP4 Microsoft® Windows® 2000 Advanced Server SP4 Microsoft® Windows® 2000 Datacenter Server SP4 Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional x64 Edition (WOW) Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional SP2 Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition SP2 Microsoft® Windows® XP Media Center Edition 2002 SP2 Microsoft® Windows® XP Media Center Edition 2004 SP2 Microsoft® Windows® XP Media Center Edition 2005 Microsoft® Windows® XP Tablet PC Edition SP2 Microsoft® Windows Server™ 2003, Standard Edition SP1 Microsoft® Windows Server™ 2003, Enterprise Edition SP1 Microsoft® Windows Server™ 2003, Datacenter Edition SP1 Microsoft® Windows Server™ 2003, Web Edition SP1 Microsoft® Windows Server™ 2003, Standard x64 Edition SP1 (WOW) Microsoft® Windows Server™ 2003, Enterprise x64 Edition SP1 (WOW) Microsoft® Windows Server™ 2003, Datacenter x64 Edition SP1 (WOW) Microsoft® Windows Server™ 2003 R2, Standard Edition Microsoft® Windows Server™ 2003 R2, Standard x64 Edition (WOW) Microsoft® Windows Server™ 2003 R2, Enterprise Edition Microsoft® Windows Server™ 2003 R2, Enterprise x64 Edition (WOW) Microsoft® Windows Server™ 2003 R2, Datacenter Edition Microsoft® Windows Server™ 2003 R2, Datacenter x64 Edition (WOW) Microsoft® Windows Vista™  Installation of Visual Studio 2005 on the Intel Itanium (IA64) is not supported.
RAM1	Minimum: 192 megabytes (MB) Recommended: 256 MB
Hard Disk2	Without MSDN: 2 GB of available space required on installation drive 1 GB of available space required on system drive With MSDN: 3.8 GB of available space required on installation drive with a full MSDN install or 2.8 GB of available space required on installation drive with a default MSDN install. 1 GB of available space required on system drive
CD or DVD Drive	Not required
Display	Minimum: 800 x 600 256 colors Recommended: 1024 x 768 High Color - 16-bit
Mouse	Microsoft mouse or compatible pointing device

The only point where I see a problem is the Display. So my question still will the autoscaling be good enough to trick the installation requirement of 800x600?

It will run slow, I know but I see the device no as main machine but as a companion machine to do some coding on the road.

jkendrick:

Can you point me to the statement in these forums that UMPCs run DX 8?  I can't find it. 

it was one where somebody was asking about to play Halo in one of these. Let me see if I can find it.

jkendrick:

Where did you read that UMPCs run DirectX8?  UMPCs have WinXP Tablet Edition 2005 installed which is WinXP and thus has DirectX 9.0c according to MS.  They should all be running at least that release or later.

Windows XP comes with DirectX8, Windows XP with SP2 comes with DirectX 9.

Ok, Otto in his video says that: Origamis will have Integrated graphics capabilities (DirectX 7, DirectX8 Level). That was the source.

http://www.origamiportal.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=19

http://origamiproject.com/forums/permalink/1453/2117/ShowThread.aspx#2117